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the scientific evidence for his

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agreement um was basically pioneered by

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two gentlemen uh keith herron at the

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university of paul in england

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and uh stephen george a few years later

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at stanford university

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basically both of them

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figured out the same mechanism

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to scientifically prove something that

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had been talked about for centuries the

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buddhists have been talking about lucid

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dreaming or becoming conscious they were

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the dream state uh since basically the

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eighth eighth century

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and parapsychologists have been talking

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about it for hundreds of years these

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gentlemen approved it and this is how

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they proved it

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they thought that

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when you were dreaming

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your body is basically paralyzed or

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functionally paralyzed but you still

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have rapid eye movement so they wonder

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when you're consciously aware of the

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dream state

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can you signal that you're consciously

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aware by moving your eyes in a

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predetermined manner

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and this is some work that stephen

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laverne has done

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the two

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indices here the

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left eye and the right eye you can see

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here at the beginning the person is not

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dreaming there's no eye movement then

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all of a sudden they begin to dream

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and uh

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here's where they signal so that's what

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they did they would move their eyes left

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to right

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four times in a predetermined signal to

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consciously announce

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to the person who's watching this little

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polygraph hey i'm consciously aware in

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here

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and uh keith hearn the first person to

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see this he said at that moment it was

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philosophically and scientifically

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mind-blowing

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so a lot of the focus of lucid dreaming

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research has been on the brain activity

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while lucid when you're dreaming the

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older part of your brain is active but

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when you become consciously aware all of

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a sudden that prefrontal cortex begins

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to light up and so there's a lot of

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interesting brain activity experiments

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also they've done physiological

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responses to loosely dreamt actions a

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good friend of mine was the first woman

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to lucidly signal that she is

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consciously aware and then have an

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orgasm

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as they were monitoring her and then

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they could

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orgasm and

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compare it to a physiological normal

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waking state orgasm

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and and see how

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come

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compare

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very very close uh but in a lucid dream

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normally it happens even faster than it

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might in the uh

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in the waking world and then there's

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various induction techniques uh this

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nova dreamer that flashes in your eyes

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when it recognizes rem

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and you use that as a cue to become

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consciously aware the personality

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characteristics of lucid dreamers the

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prevalence in the population probably

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the most functional way is

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using lucidity

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in nightmare treatment with people with

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post-traumatic stress disorder

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but in all of that you don't see the

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revolutionary potential

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i taught myself how to lucid dream back

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in 1975 when i was a junior in high

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school and so i did it six years before

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the proof

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appeared and it was very strange i'd

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tell my friends hey i'm becoming

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consciously we're in the dream state oh

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you're just having a dream about a dream

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oh you can't become conscious in the

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unconscious but but i've been doing this

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for for 33 years and and

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and so we all know that in normal

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dreaming uh people always mention

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precognitive dreams and telepathic and

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clairvoyant dreams

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visitation dreams from the deceased

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healing dreams numerous dreams but

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it occurred to me when consciously aware

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or lucid why not seek out that kind of

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information

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instead of waiting for that to happen

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which it just normally spontaneously

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happens in our normal dreams when you're

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consciously aware you can seek it out

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so so this is really some of the

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potential for mind expanding uh work in

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the field of lucid dreaming

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you can use lucid dreaming

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that state to seek telepathic

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clairvoyant information

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and and in my book

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i have chapters on seeking telepathic

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and clairvoyant information

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seeking precognitive forward-looking

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information another chapter on

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interacting with the deceased dream

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figures and lucid dreams and so i think

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i'm the first one who's really

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suggested that there's enough anecdotes

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out there that we could really take this

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seriously so so for example here's

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here's a college student wrote me and he

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said it sounds like you believe that

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you can get unknown information when

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you're consciously aware

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i said sure that's what i believe but

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you're a good lucid dreamer you just

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figure it out for yourself go go and do

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an experiment so what he did he went

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down the dorm hall and found a young

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woman who was also a lucid dreamer and

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and they started talking about it and

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she she gave him a challenge when you

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become consciously aware the next time

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come and find me and find the bizarre

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freckle on my back

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so the first time the guy had a lucid

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dream uh he starts going down the

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hallway of the dorm but he gets stopped

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you know there's people coming are

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yelling at him and all this kind of

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stuff and it falls apart but the second

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time he becomes consciously aware in the

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dream state he thinks why should i go to

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her i'll just have her come to me so so

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so all of a sudden here she appears at

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this doorstep and comes in and she turns

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around and shows him the bizarre freckle

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and the thing that surprised him was the

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bizarre freckle

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was not along her side which he kind of

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thought she had hinted at but was right

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above her rump and that really shocked

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him in the lucid dream he didn't expect

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that at all so he wakes up three hours

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later goes knocks on her door says hey i

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found your bizarre freckle in a lucid

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dream he put his finger right above her

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wrap she pulls up her shirt and there's

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a bizarre freckle right under

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right under his finger

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so this really blew this kid's mind but

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i want to tell you that's just one

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example of what what you can do when

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you're consciously wearing the dream

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seat at the association for the study of

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dreams every year we have a dream

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telepathy contest which is something

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that a former professor here at the

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university of virginia charlottesville

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robert vandecastle got started

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they did uh pioneering work on dream

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telepathy got the first nih grant on

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telepathy but every year we have a dream

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come up in the contest and now what's

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happening is the lucid dreamers are

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becoming consciously aware they're going

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and finding the telepathic cinder find

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out what they're sending and then they

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wake up with it and in the morning

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they're winning the contest but it makes

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you wonder could this also prove some of

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carl jung's ideas like the collective

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unconscious or more new age ideas like

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universal mind or the meta web or the

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matrix

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for myself personally i became very

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interested in precognitive lucid dreams

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because precognition was something that

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got me attracted to

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dreaming to begin with

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the first time uh i did it was at the

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request of a friend of mine linda

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maggione who wrote the book

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mutual dreaming and she asked me to get

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precognitive information so i became

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consciously aware

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in a lucid dream and i thought well how

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do i get precognitive information when

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i'm cognating now

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and so i had this little philosophical

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crisis in the lucid dream so when i woke

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up i realized oh i got to project it out

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from me i got to find it so

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i began just doing the experiments i'd

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see a friend

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in a lucid dream and i'd say a year from

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now where are you going to be living

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because this friend had been talking

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about moving away or a year from now are

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you going to be married because he's

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involved with a young woman very

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seriously and in both of the cases the

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answers were correct i had to wait a

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year to get the

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to see the results but but they were

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correct and as i did it more and more

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often it surprised me how

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how the answers were just correct

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repeatedly so then one time a friend

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said well seems like i was getting quite

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good with precognition and lucid dreams

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so why don't i get the lottery numbers

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of the uh

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and my friend said that he had tried it

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once he had tried to get the powerball

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numbers but here's what happened to him

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he became consciously aware he projected

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that the information would appear in the

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book that he opens so he sees two sets

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are two numbers six sets of two numbers

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and he said they're trying to memorize

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him and he memorizes it memorizes

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that that he tells himself

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to wake up and he said he woke up he

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started writing it down in his dream

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journal he got the first three sets

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exactly but then the memory problem

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occurred and he could not remember you

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know

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and so what happened the next day when

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the uh powerball was announced he did

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get the first three sets exactly right

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but the next three says he had

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transposed the numbers incorrectly so he

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told me to do the iowa pick three

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library and just to be real quick this

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is what happened became consciously

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aware

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remembered oh yeah i wanted to get that

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iowa pick 3 lottery number for this

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weekend

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all of a sudden i look in my hand and i

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have a wheel of fortune

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like that but without any numbers on it

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and so at first i look at it and i see

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just one number the number eight

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i think okay well that must be the

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number i hadn't even really formally

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asked the question to the dream

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awareness hey i want to get the iowa

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pick three lottery network so the first

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number i see is eight i look away then i

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look back down and now i see nothing on

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that wheel of fortune and that really

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confused me i thought nothing well

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that's weird then i look away and i look

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back down and i see eight again

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and so now i feel really confused

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because

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i'd already seen eight before why am i

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seeing this again and so now i felt

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really confused and i i looked back at

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it one time and and it it said one and

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then i thought i should just wake up and

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write this down

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so

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00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:46,800
i woke up and i thought well maybe that

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00:09:49,990 --> 00:09:48,720
second eight was really a three i mean

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00:09:51,670 --> 00:09:50,000
that's what your mind starts to do you

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00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:51,680
start to interpret the data that you

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picked up and so i thought well maybe

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it's 831 but as it turned out the pick 3